Wyoming Elk Draw breakdown: Elk Hunting Wyoming

This is a transcription of my podcast on Elk Hunting Wyoming and the Wyoming Elk Draw with Robert Hanneman you can listen to the whole podcast here

John: (00:00)
Hey guys, welcome to 2020 and welcome to the 11th season of interviews with the hunting masters. Um, I want to run something by you. I’ve been considering now for a couple of seasons to change the name of interviews with the honey masters, not the format, not what we do or how we do it. Um, but just changed the name two days in the wild to match my old TV show and, and my guide services days in the wild Outfitters just so it’s all concise and for one. And number two, I got feedback that uh, you know, over the years that people think my, uh, the title of the show is a little pretentious. Like, Oh, you know, this guy thinks he’s a hunting master. Um, so, and, and lastly, because interviews with the honey masters is quite long and a little hard to market. Um, days in the wild is a little bit easier.

Wyoming elk hunting

John: (01:00)
And again, like it’s like I said, it matches everything else. So like to hear what you think, like to hear from all the fans and all the guys that have been guys and girls that have been listening to the podcast and uh, you know, what you think if I should change the name or not. So I’m gonna, I’m gonna put up a little survey page on http://www.Johnstallone.me and uh, I love to hear back from you. So, without further ado, we’re going to roll into this next episode and it’s brought to you by Phoenix shooting bags. Thanks. I welcome to the interviews with the hunting masters brought to you by Phoenix shooting bags. Uh, today we’re going to talk a little bit about, uh, applying for elk in Wyoming. I got, Robert Hanneman in form huntin fool on with us and uh, we’re going to discuss the ins and outs of how Wyoming Elk Draw works because to me, I think it’s the most confusing state in the, in the West to apply for, even though I’ve been hunting there for probably well now more than that, like14-16 years.

John: (02:11)
So, and I still haven’t figured it out, but, uh, anyway, hopefully after this, this podcast, everybody including myself will be a little bit more, uh, educated on it. What’s going on?

Robert: Well, not too much just, uh, filming a bunch of Wyoming phone calls. Uh, you know, it’s kinda nice to get this out on the podcast. Maybe it’ll answer a few of those, but yeah, there’s a lot of changes this year and a lot of people confused, more confused than normal about Wyoming. Yeah. Well before we get into the meat and potatoes of what are the changes that they did make. So the changes this year is, um, more to do with the draw than anything else. So, you know, prior to this year, as a non resident, we always applied by January 31st and by that third week of February we would get our dryer results so we could, you know, decide what we want to do with the rest of the States if we were successful or not.

Robert: (03:04)
And kind of lay out our season. And you know, Wyoming essentially it was the first results minus Alaska that, that Hunter’s got to see in that kind of wood, you know, set the tone for the rest of their year on what their plans were. Well, this year Wyoming decided to leave the draw date. I’m the same, so we still have to apply by January 31st but they’re not going to do the draw until May 21st is the tentative date they have set at this time. And so, you know, Wyoming is one of those few States left where we have to upfront all that money so they’re going to sit on our money for essentially up to four months before the draw takes place. So there’s definitely a lot of, a lot of people that are unhappy because if you’re applying a family and you’re upfront in that money, most of us would get that money back and roll it to other States for our applications. Or now they’re going to sit on it for four months.

John: (03:56)

John: (03:58)
like, I don’t know, other than them getting some money in interest, uh, I don’t really see the upside for them to do that. Why? I mean, I feel like that’s going to shoot them in the foot, but maybe not this year, but then the following years where people realize that, well, crap, I can’t, I can’t apply for Wyoming as my like first option and then, and then, you know, wait to see what I’m going to do elsewhere where I know I could get a tag or, you know, no, it, it’s a huge change.

Robert: And, uh, you know, Wyoming’s response to this is, you know, we’ve always done the draw based on the previous year’s data and this year they’re essentially going to, you know, the bile, just so you know, go through all their data. They’ll present it all at the April commission meeting at the April commission meeting. Um, the fishing game’s gonna finalize exact tag numbers, all of that.

Robert: (04:54)
And then that’s why they’re giving us till May 8th to modify our application. So if we did apply for something and the commission meeting takes place and they add hunts, change shots, you know, increased tags, decrease tags, that information is supposed to be available no later than May 1st on the Wyoming’s website. And then you know, guys can go in and spend that next week modifying their applications. So their reasoning is, you know, they’re going to have the correct data and hunters are going to know applying, knowing how many tags are going to be available. Um, so that’s, that’s their reasoning behind it. Um, you know, I kinda talked to a few of them and said, well, why wouldn’t we just, you know, make the draw deadline May 8th so that way everybody could see all the data and go from there and they, you know, they just said it was easier to do it this way. So that’s what they’re going with. Super easy.

Robert : (05:47)
That’s the biggest change. Other than that, like Wyoming’s always released in December, kind of a draw a proclamation of kind of what was going to be, you know, available for non-residents and residents that year. They did not release that this year. So essentially they’ve said they’re allowing people to really apply based on 2019 is information, their hunt planner on their website, we’ll have some more up to date information on it, but the application period is going to open on January 2nd or just a few days away from that. So on January 2nd you’ll log in and see like what hunts they’re allowing you to apply for. And then again, no matter what you applied for, you can modify that, you know, and tell May 8th

John: (06:31)

Robert: (06:32)
Yup. And you can also withdraw your application at any time, so you can modify or withdraw. Tell May 8th if you do modify it or withdraw it, they’re still not going to refund your money until they would have after the draw. So they’ll still sit on that the entire time.

Robert: (06:47)
Probably. That sucks. But at least at least you know, you know, you can, this is a selfish question.

John:So let me ask you this. What is, what does the results come out for New Mexico,

Speaker 1: (07:00)
uh, New Mexico, you know, should be earlier than that. I haven’t looked at the dates off the top of my head, but a lot of these States, you know, I think you’re going to see, you know, Arizona’s results, new Mexico’s results, you know, Utah’s results on Montana, moose, goat and sheep, or excuse me, Montana’s deer and elk results. You’re going to see a lot of results prior

John: (07:21)
to, um, you know, us getting the Wyoming results. You could do it the other way around instead of waiting to see if you draw it, why L Maine to put in for New Mexico or whatever. Cause the NM draw, you’d have to put it til March. What could do that because yeah, yeah, yeah. You’re going to see more guys modifying their application to withdrawal or change it because they found out they were successful in other States. You know, you will see that because Wyoming does not allow you to return your tag. So if you draw that you’re, you’re essentially stuck with that tag. So, you know, it’s one of those that if you knew your, you already have drawn an Arizona elk tag or another elk tag and you don’t want a Wyoming tag as well. You want to go in there and withdraw your application.

John: Yeah. Actually I think what it is if you want or if you want to return it, you have to have a medical reason that you cannot make it. You can’t just return it to, to return it.

Robert: (08:19)
Yeah. Well, so it’s, and it’s gotta be a very legitimate medical reason. You know, there are certain States where if you hurt your back, they’ll let you return it. Wyoming’s pretty like you got to have a legitimate medical reason. Um, it’s not as easy to return a tag in Wyoming as it is and a lot of other States that, you know, will just let you do that.

John: (08:36)
Right, right. Um, so let’s talk about the different types. Dope. Well, one of the reasons why I said that, um, Wyoming is super confusing. It is, their elk units are different from their deer units. Their deer units are different than the, than the antelope units. Even though it might be the same unit though the numbers are different and they’re different from the residents. And then the non-residents have preference points, the residents still, and there’s special tag and then there’s regular tag and there’s so much stuff going on. And I know I just threw out a bunch of stuff at you, but can we go through some of that and explain some of that so that we can and then,

Robert : (09:28)
yeah, so we’ll start with, you know, just, we’ll kind of run over the deadlines real quick just to, you know, go back over those. So January 2nd you can start applying January 31st is the deadline. Got to have your applications in by then. Um, when you go to apply, you’re going to have a decision to make. Um, before we get to the types of tags or anything like that, you have to decide, do I want to apply in the regular elk draw or do I want to apply in the special elk draw? The only difference is the price to apply for the regular elk tag is going to be like $692 to apply for. The special is going to be $1,268 once the drawing takes place. Those tags are the same. So if you drew a tag in general, and I drew a special, but we do the same unit.

Robert: (10:11)
Once the drawings done, we have the exact same tag. There’s no difference. The difference is Wyoming has split their tags. So they take, let’s just say, you know, there was a hundred non-resident tags available. They’re going to put 60 or six 60% of them in the regular draw, in 40% in the special draw. The more expensive draw. The reasoning is typically most units are easier to draw on the special draw. You can usually draw them a year or two quicker. Um, you know, with the points, because guys are not as apt to spend, you know, almost 1300 bucks on an Oak tag compared to 700. So the special draw typically gets you better drawing odds. Not always, but typically and a Wyoming just thought, well, if hunters are willing to pay more money for better odds, we’ll give that to them. So when you go ready to get ready to apply, you need to pick either special or pick regular.

Robert: (11:04)
Um, if you do have a, if you have a youth, you can apply them, you know, in the youth draw, which is essentially the general draw, not the special. And uh, their tags only going to be 275 bucks. So once you’ve decided, Hey, I’m going to go general, I’m going to go special. And the draw odds are completely different from both of those. If you’re hunting fool member, you can look in the hunt and full magazine. We detail draw statistics of all the units. You can go to our website. We kind of do the same thing where you can go to Wyoming’s hunt planner and kind of, you know, work through that. And it’ll tell you kind of the draw odds for nonresident as well. So once you’ve decided I’m going to go special, I’m going to go regular. You gotta look at the types Wyoming breaks, they’re there.

Robert: (11:45)
They’re essentially tags down into type one type two. Um, type four, five six type nine. For most hunters or guys listening to your podcast, they’re probably going to be interested in the type one, the type two or the type nine. The type one and two are going to be rifle hunts. And the difference can be, uh, it depends on each unit, but say a type one could be, you know, the North half of the unit and the type to be the South half of the unit. Or they could be different season dates, like the type ones in October 1st to the 14th and the type twos and November 1st through the 20th. So the types really dictate, you know, either a, a portion of the unit or a different season date. The type nine is just archery only permit. So if you draw the type nine, you can hunt during the archery season.

Robert: (12:35)
Um, not all units have type nines and so a lot of those type one and twos, if you were to get lucky and draw that tag, you could go and purchase the archery stamp. Um, little expensive, you know, at 72 bucks. Um, but by buying that archery stamp, that would open up essentially the month of September. Again, depending on the unit for you to go and hunt and kind of extend your season. So the type kind of four or five, six, those are typically like cow calf licenses. Um, and those are, you know, ones that most trophy hunters aren’t going to be looking at. So type one, type two going to be your rifle. Usually with an archery option, type nine is going to be our only. So you know, that’s, that’s kind of the big breakdown between the, the general and regular and your types.

Robert: (13:21)
So all right, they have the general, the general huts, those are your, okay, here are the types of, yeah. So that kind of wraps up the types, but then you know, we go into, you know, the actual tags you’re going to be applying for. And with those tags, how I talked about how on the special got 40% and then the regular general tag got 60% those are broken down another time. So this is what makes Wyoming so confusing is so those say that all the general tags for a unit are split. Again, 75% of all those permits are going to go to the guys with the most points. 25% are going to go totally random. So, and that’s going to work the same as special. So again, when you, once you decide which way you’re going to go, still 75% of the tags are going to go to the guys with the most points.

Speaker 1: (14:16)
I’m going into the 2020 draw 14 points is the max for elk. And there’s still a lot of people that have max points. So you’ve decided your price, you’ve decided your type, and then you decided, you know, a special and regular, um, you know, the breakdown. You gotta look at the draw odds and kind of decide, you know, this unit over here, we’ll just take like, you know, 100. You know, it took max points to draw it and it wasn’t even guaranteed with max points. Um, and the random, you know, you can look at the odds and say, and 1% is not really what I want to go for. So you can, if you’re sitting high on a point level, you can look at what points it takes to essentially force the draw because whoever has the most points is going to get 75% of the tags.

Robert: (15:02)
And if you’re someone that doesn’t have a lot of points, you want to be looking more at a random draw. And where could I possibly sneak a tag? So what Wyoming has done with their elk tags is about 40% of the state is a general elk tag. Now this tag you could apply for, and it’s just general, it’d be G N and if you draw that, it’s the same exact tag that a Wyoming resident would buy over the counter. So you’re actually able to hunt, you know, about 40% of the state. And each of those units kinda has different season dates and you know, you can find the archery stamp and hunt most of those during archery season, but that is the same tag that a Wyoming resident but go into a store and buy. So that’s the general tag. Yeah. Outside of applying for that is there limited entry tags and you know, there’s, you know, a ton of different units to be able to apply for and residents are also applying for those.

Robert: (15:59)
So all of those units are controlled. There’s no general hunting allowed. They’re all a controlled hunt and it’s, you know, more of a trophy manage type unit. Like most of us are excited to hunt in the West. So those are the ones that based on how many points you have, um, kind of where you’re looking at, um, you know, you’re going to have a chance at, and again, 25% of those are going to go random. 75% are going to go to the guys with the most points. So if you just want to hunt elk in Wyoming and you know, you want a good opportunity, the general tag, which is the one that resident would buy over the counter, are typically a really good tag. You know, for someone to go and just have a quality elk hunt. I’m not necessarily hunting some of the biggest pools in the state, but there are some great bulls that do come out of those general units. Um, and that one typically is taken. Guys, you know, they’re, they’re drawn it every two to three years where, you know, some of these limited entry tags, like especially the more sought after ones, um, even a guy with 14 points, you know, still at a one in 10 chance of drawn.

John: (17:07)
So, let me ask you this. Now they also have, you got a first choice and a second choice on your application. You draw a second choice. You don’t, or it doesn’t take your points away correct?

Robert: Well, the big thing to remember about Wyoming is everybody gets their first choice before anybody gets their second. So a unit would have to go completely under subscribed, um, for you to, to draw that tag. But you are correct. If you did get lucky and pull a tag as a second choice, you do not lose your points and you could actually accumulate another point that year. But, uh, those are going to be units that go under subscribed and for a non-resident, there’s really not a lot of those units left in Wyoming.

Robert: (17:57)
means you can kind of shoot for the stars. It’s the first, if you don’t get it, just pull a tag just to pull a tag. Yeah. But it’d be a tag that went under subscribed. Um, you know, before the Wyoming general really got popular about five years ago, um, there was guys that were applying for the general as their second choice in the special. So there was guys were, you know, willing to pay $1,200 for that tag and they were actually, you know, drawing a lot of those tags as second choice. Um, because it’s gotten so popular that that’s not really happening anymore. But even last year for a guy wanted to slap down, you know, the 1200 bucks for a general tag and the special with no points at all, you know, he’s still had it like a 45% chance of drawn.

Robert: (18:42)
Yup. And again, the general is a great tag, especially if you’re willing to go guided or you have a Wyoming resident that’s willing to hump, phew. Um, Wyoming has a, a law that not a lot of people agree with and I’m kind of one of those where non-residents are not allowed to hunt the wilderness without an outfitter or a Wyoming resident. We can go in there and fish, we can go in there and camp, we can go out in there and recreate all we want, but we can’t hunt. So, you know, that excludes a lot of guys from going in and hunting that. And it doesn’t necessarily have as much hunting pressures. It probably would. And, um, there’s some great big bulls living in a lot of that, you know, wilderness country along the Yellowstone, you know, border. And um, like I said, some of the best bulls come out of there, but unfortunately if you don’t have a buddy who’s a Wyoming resident or you’re willing to hire an outfit or me and you just legally can’t go hunt that country.

John: (19:35)
Right. Well luckily for me, I got uh, quite a few friends in Wyoming so I might be able to, yeah, one of them to go with me in the wilderness if I ever got I since I’ve had a Wyoming tag.

Robert: Yeah, no one, it’s one of those things where, you know, like drawn tags, you know, if you have points and someone else doesn’t, you can apply as a party. You can apply up to six people on a party and a Wyoming does do something special where they’ll over-allocate tags. They’re the really the only state in the West that does that. But I was just say, me and you, John, we put in for say unit 38 on the archery hunt and all the tags were gone. But one, well, if that was Arizona or Utah, they’d kick us out. But Wyoming would actually over-allocate and give us both tags.

Robert: (20:20)
So it’s one of those States where heck, you can apply as a group of six and even if there’s only one tag in there, if you’re the first one drawn out, you guys are all gonna get tags and uh, so you can kind of point shares. Well, you know, and that’s kind of what I did. I got in on the ground floor and I think I’ve drawn five pretty darn good elk tags in the last 14 years. And a lot of that was going in hunting a unit, learning it, and then maybe having a friend who was sitting on higher points, um, and then went in there with him the next year and kind of did the same thing. And you know, um, so it’s, it’s one of those where you can apply with your wife, your friends, anyone that has points and Wyoming’s going to average those points, but they’re not going to round them. So whatever it comes out to, um, you know, with me and you apply. If it’s 4.333, that’s what we’re going to go in the draw with. And we’d essentially get that tag before anyone that you know, had less points than us.

John: (21:12)
Okay, makes sense.

Glassing for Elk in the lowlands

Robert: (21:17)
So one big thing, one big thing to talk about on Wyoming elk, it is, you know, a lot of guys see these 360, 380 and even the occasional 400 inch bull that comes out of Wyoming and they may be sitting on max points and they’re like, Oh man, I’m, I’m going to hold out for that. One thing that guys need to realize as Wyoming’s not Arizona. You know, it’s not Utah, it’s not Nevada. I mean Wyoming’s a great elk state, you know, for a ton of 300 to three 30 bowls and they do kill some occasional, you know, three 50 pluses and in a lot of units, you know, they’ll kill a lot of bowls of that size. But too many guys that I talked to, you know, kinda draw Wyoming and go into it with the expectation that they just drew an Arizona unit nine tag and it’s just not the truth. If you’re going to hunt that country, you know, these are bulls that, you know, winter in tough country and uh, they, they definitely have a lot more hunting pressure than a lot of States. So it’s a, it’s one of my favorite States to go and hunt elk, um, with realistic expectations. You know, I think a guys can have a, an amazing adventure, you know, in Wyoming,

John: (22:22)

John: (22:23)
No, luckily for me, I don’t ever really, uh, I dunno, I don’t feel like I, I go in with an expectation of water to kill a giant unless it’s, it happens to be one of those, like you said, like a unit nine or something that’s well known for being,

John: (22:45)
you know, a trophy state then. Yeah. Okay. Our trophy unit, I will a trophy state ed unit, I guess. Um, then I’ll hold out, but I always just look for a good representation of it,

John: (22:56)
you know? No,

Robert: (22:58)
I’m easy to please I guess. So Wyoming, Wyoming is a great state. Like I said, that it’s getting tougher to drive tags, you know, more people are applying. Um, but you know, there’s, there’s still some great tags there. Um, you know, with the, you know, max points being 14 going in this year. You know, a lot of people kind of think like, you know, the unit takes more points to draw. It usually means there’s a higher trophy potential. Um, that is the case to some extent. But a lot of it has to do with access to public land. You know, when you get some of these, you know, desert units that have good quality bulls but tons of public land, they, you know, draw a lot more of the application crowds because there’s no Grizzlies there. There’s no wolves, there’s no wilderness. They can do it on their, it’s physically easy.

Robert: (23:46)
So just because a unit takes max points to draw doesn’t necessarily mean it’s a three 50 bull unit. It could be that it’s just a great fun, high success hunt with tons of public land. So you see a lot of guys, you know, kind of applying for for those types of units. And those would be like, you know, unit 22 unit 101 24, you know, 30 31 32, um, you know, those types of units, those are orders. That’s a limited quota tag, right? Yeah. Those are, those are all limited quota and those are units that typically are going to take max points to be in drawn or you know, they’re going to be, you know, random odds so that, you know, one to 5%. Got it. Yeah. So if you’re in, if you’re sitting in max points, those are some units that a guy should really look at.

Robert : (24:33)
You know, if you’re kind of that next tier down and you’re, you know, maybe you know, two or three points off max, then he kind of almost want to look for units that a, maybe have, you know, a lot of grizzly and wilderness activity, the stuff around the park, you know, 56 59, you know, 51, you know, 60 61 62. Those units, you know, are typically being drawn a point or two less even. They’re going to, you know, hunt around Grizzlies. You’re going to hit with an outfitter or a horseback kind of guided, or on the other side of the state you have your kind of unit sevens and nineteens and you know, these, you know, unit 16, and again, they’re not max point units, but they’re, they have a ton of private land. So you’re going to hunt literally off your GPS or you’re going to be, you know, going outfitted or trying to access some of that.

Robert: (25:21)
So there’s kind of that top tier of you got max points, your next tier, kind of your more grizzly wilderness, you know, private land hunts. And then like me and you talked, I think you’re sitting at eight or nine points and that tier kind of falls into almost the big horn mountains. You know, that stuff, uh, up in North central Wyoming, you know, it’s 38, 39, 40, 45. Those units are over elk objective, tons of good hunting. Not a lot of wilderness, but some, no Grizzlies, no wolves, you know, high elk numbers where guys can go in either archery rifle and have good quality hunts, you know, for say two 60 to like three 30 and even better bowls. So those are the ones that guys that are in that point level you were at, but kind of steer them more that direction. And then for the guys that are, you know, three or four or less, I mean the general okay.

Robert: (26:16)
I guess is probably your best bet for having a good quality hunt. Right. I like, I’m at the point right now that I almost wish I had no points. You know, as I put it for the general, it’d be happy, but it’s just like, I don’t want to, I don’t want a squad there eight or nine years or whatever I have. Yeah. But I mean, if you had a buddy that had zero, maybe that’s the way to go. And I mean, it’s, you’re at the point where you probably could hold out for especially one of those nine hunts up there and have a good experience. But, um, once you draw, I’d highly recommend that you just start chasing the general.

John: (26:52)
Yeah. Yeah. It’s probably probably what I want to do. Yeah. I don’t know. I
I know I applied for 38 last year. Yeah, last, last time I had a tag. I want to say it was either 36 or 35. Speaker 1: Okay. So you were, you were there in the big horns as well. Yeah. So I know that area pretty well cause I

John: (27:17)
um, I hunt Region C for time for Deer.

John: (27:22)
And P as well. I liked that area cause I know it but I’m not a, you know, I’m not afraid to go anywhere else. I had the, I had looked at 59 quite a bit, cause I know as far as trophy quality’s concerned, 59 and 60, right or

Robert: (27:52)
well, so, so like 59 and 56 are really popular on those late hunts late November, December. But they’re super weather dependent, you know, and, and, uh, like, you know, you can general hunt, you know, those units, you know, during like say October, but the late hunts are the limited entry draw and those, those units do produce some of the biggest bulls in the state every year. Um, unit 60, you talked about that. That’s the thoroughfare. So, uh, most people that have heard of Wyoming have heard of like the thoroughfare and it is as wild as it was a hundred years ago. And there’s Outfitters in there that do, you know, classic horseback con swol tent. I mean, they, the hunts haven’t changed in 80 years in that country. And, uh, you know, it’s a September rifle hunt. The bulls are screaming. I mean, you know, it’s wild as countries you can get, uh, probably in some of the lower 48.

Robert: (28:44)
So, I mean, it’s a, but it’s going to be a day horseback ride to camp in a day, horseback ride out. But, uh, you will truly experience, you know, going back in time and, you know, true horseback ball tent, you know, the success rate on those outfitted hunts is, I mean, near 80%. I mean, they’re, they’re absolutely amazing experiences. I, I gotta get myself from the thoroughfare one of these days. I’ve read about it, you know, I’ve talked to so many guys that have been there. Um, just that wilderness law kills me. I’m going to have to get a Wyoming buddy that’s got some horses and wants to go in there for a week, but I, I’m going to experience it at some point in my life. There’s no doubt about that.

John: (29:23)
Yeah. It’s something I want to do, but it’s like, I dunno,

John: (29:28)
it’s, I have such a hard time going on these, uh, we’ll like, we’ll, it has hearts where you’re completely disconnected from the outside world because,

John: (29:37)
Mmm, I ha I have to run my business when I’m gone. Sucks. But it’s also cool thing about the way I have my life set up. I could hunt as much as I do and do what I do because as long as I can make a phone call at night or ranch or some emails and here and there, I, you know, I’m not losing out, but it’s like I got to really plan to do something like that. The last time I did a hunt like that, it was I think in 2013 or 2014 and it hurt me pretty good that I get, Oh, I lost, I lost business. And it was just like, yeah, I don’t like, I don’t know if it’s worth me to wait.

Robert: (30:17)
Yeah. It’s different now with like in reaches, but you can’t really be checking emails and trying to have a conversation over an injury should be pretty tough other than checking in. But I dunno, it’s one of those adventure hots where, I mean, I can remember reading outdoor life when I was a little kid and I mean there was just like, that’s the kind of hunts that, you know, most people dream about doing. It’s like, you know, that’s not the hunt where you’re going to go try to kill a three 50 bull. Even though those bulls are there, it’s going to be more solid 6.3 300 to three 30 but it’s going to be that total adventure hunt. That’s, that’s kind of what that is. And the, and the Outfitters that are hunting the thoroughfare are doing it right. I mean they’re, they’re showing guys what it’s like to have a true adventure. And I mean it’s, it’s awesome. Like I said, I’ll be in there someday, but you know, that’s just one of the few areas where the general hunters could hunt. You know, it’s just one of those that they offer hunts in there, but it is all wilderness. So you’d definitely be needing the outfitter or a humming resident to go with you. And in reality you need horses. I mean, yeah, you could back back in some of the closer areas, but it’s really a horseback type hunt.

John: (31:24)
Right? I’m trying to think how I wanna word this without the I basically. So I’m just going to say, do I want to say, when would you look at these hearts? Like, see, I didn’t give a crap, I didn’t give a crap about trophy quality, but I want to get into like screaming bowls. I definitely want to see a lot of bowls. I want to have a lot of action and you know, a maximum more maximize my chances of scoring a bow, whether it’s a two 60 or three 40, it doesn’t matter to me. Um, what is some of the things you look at on Wyoming? Like what, how could you decipher where to pick? Like, um, is there stuff in their hunting plan or, or

Robert: (32:18)
no, I mean, so if you’re hunting fool member man, pick up the phone and call me. I spent 200 hours researching the Wyoming section and we can go over things for days. If you’re not a hunting full member, um, you should be and you can log on and become one. But if you’re not the hunt planners, probably your next best bet. And you can go in and click the units and, and see what the, what the success was for the last year. Um, you know, how long some of these people were hunting in there. Um, you know, does the unit have wilderness? Does it not? It’s a fairly good interactive map that Wyoming does have. Um, but you know, for, for me, when I put together the information, like what we produced in the magazine, you know, that’s talking to all the biologists looking at hunt planner, talking to all the Outfitters in there, talking to all our personal contacts that live there out there, and then talking to say Huntsville members a hundred thousand units a years before.

Robert: (33:10)
And that’s how we kind of come up with the data that we put in the magazine. But if I was looking to just be in the bowls, I would probably look more towards the general tag. The reasons are I’m going to be able to hunt it every three years. As you know from living in Arizona, a unit that you get to hunt on a regular basis, you’re way more effective in than you are a new unit. So you’re going to learn that unit and take that information forward with the general tag. I would plan on archery, hunting it by the archery stamp so I can go in and archery hunt. One unique thing about Wyoming is they are crossbow friendly. Um, you do not need any kind of handicap, um, to hunt with a crossbow. It is 100% legal. So you could try the tag by the archery stamp, go by a crossbow and go hot Wyoming all of September with a crossbow.

Robert: (34:00)
So, I mean it’s even, you know, some guys that, you know, maybe aren’t the best archery hunters are starting to pick up crossbows and go there and you know, chase these bugle and bowls. So even if you’re not an archery fanatic, the general tech scrape, cause you can pick up a crossbow, go in there and hunting September and you’re chasing bugle and bowls, you’re seeing lots of elk. Um, and if you don’t get one killed, then you can turn around, you can come back during rifle season. And that general tag allow you to hunt a lot of different areas. Um, if you don’t have access to a resident or you don’t have, uh, you know, uh, you’re not looking to go on a guided hunt and say you were doing yourself Hunter, I would probably tell a guy to look more towards, um, you know, Western Wyoming, kind of that country, you know, in the grays river.

Robert: (34:46)
Um, a lot of that stuff along the Idaho border, those are almost all general units. I would tell someone to stay, you know, more of those units that are going to be in Western Wyoming, that grays river country stuff from Jackson South. Um, you know, the further you get from Jackson, the less wilderness you have. And you know, if a guys want to do a little research, hit a trail head and hike in, you’re going to find out, um, you know, you could see a little bit, uh, uh, deer hunting pressure if you’re there, you know, after September 15th. But prior to that you kind of have the place to yourself and, uh, I mean if a guys won’t invest a little bit of time, um, I think that Wyoming general, especially on the archery can be a really quality hunt. Um, you know, even though it’s a resident over the counter tag, most residents are typically rifle hunters and don’t spend a lot of time archery hunting.

Robert: (35:39)
Um, and if they do, it’s usually more like weekend warrior type stuff. I mean, there are residents that go after it and hunt as hard as anyone else, but for the most part, you know, they’re, they’re mainly rifle hunters and the guys that are archery hunting are typically doing it more on the weekends. So I really like Western Wyoming, you know, just having that national forest for elk and the elk numbers in Wyoming are definitely going up. I mean it’s, it’s, you know, the, they have sort of hunting wolves up there, you know, and a lot of that country especially, you know, on the Idaho border, they’ve been pounding walls in Idaho forever. So no, I would say elk numbers in all are doing great in Wyoming across the board.

John: (36:20)
Sweet as I, you know, I didn’t know that about the crossbow. That actually makes me think that I should put my daughter in for, for elk tag there. Yeah. No, I mean she could definitely, the crossbow, she’s fricking, she shoots, my mission, crossbow a hundred yards. He’s freaking awesome when it,

Robert: (36:40)
Oh, and I mean, what kind of cool opportunity to, and I’ve got three boys, you know, 11, 12 and 14 and you know, I told him, I said, we’re not hunting elk until you can drop 50 pounds with your bow and the 14 year olds right there. But it’s like for the other ones to give them an opportunity to experience bugling bowls, you know, and have that, that, you know, crossbow set up on a tripod and that bull comes in. They don’t have to draw, they don’t have to move in that pill, you know, stops it, you know, I’ll say 40 yards. These kids can be out there enjoying September and just extending our season. So I’m not saying I’m a crossbow everywhere in the, in the West, you know, kinda guy. But man, I, I kinda like what Wyoming is doing, just gives us, you know, a little more opportunity and opportunity to kids too. Just like your daughter and my kids. I mean, what a great experience.

John: (37:27)
Yeah. That’s awesome. That’s really awesome. Cool. I’ll have to think about that. Well, uh, I think that’s all I got. I’ll definitely get you back on or want to talk about a couple other, a couple other States here as the year progresses. Um, and uh, yeah, I guess that’s it. Oh man.

John: (37:53)
I always appreciate you having this on. Like I said, uh, if you guys have any questions, they can go to [inaudible] dot com kinda check out, you know, what we’re doing. If they have any questions they can reach out to us. But, uh, as always, it’s, it’s fun getting on podcast and visit with you.